Welcome to the Builder Hacks podcast, your go to destination for cutting edge strategies, time tested systems, and invaluable insights to revolutionize your construction business and elevate your life. Join your host, Nate Piper and Keith Mills. Seasoned contractors who are not just in the trenches, but are also pioneering the future of the industry through Concor University. In each episode, we dive deep into the minds of the industry’s most accomplished building professionals, uncovering their secrets to success and sharing actionable tips to help you thrive.
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Whether you’re a seasoned veteran or just starting out, our goal is to empower you to build a brighter future for yourself and for America. Tune in. Level up and let’s build a better tomorrow together. This is the Builder Hacks podcast. Build your future. Building America we’re extremely intimate with the problem, right? Like like we live the problem every day.
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Yeah, yeah. And, you know, it’s like, hey, let me be a barista at Starbucks at 29. You know, it’s like, right. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So the other job, when you’re 16, if it works for it. And that’s where your passion lies. That’s awesome. But you know. Yeah. Not not not exactly in most people’s minds, not the career field for everybody who’s working at Starbucks, there’s no question about unless they want to be yes.
00:01:40:23 – 00:02:10:10
Unless they want to be a branch owner, you know. And then great. Right. Three and then it makes perfect sense. Yeah. But that’s it. Is it your career path or not. And I think that’s really what when we look at it’s like you and I recognize that all the time the challenges get it. And even the people in the industry like the other subcontractors and things like that, that we work with most of them right now, I don’t think any I don’t think I’ve talked to any of my guys that don’t realize there’s a challenge right now with getting labor in, so and getting people skilled so the industry itself is aware of what’s
00:02:10:10 – 00:02:24:08
the challenges. It’s literally getting other people to become aware of it, you know? And that’s like even a part of my audience or I talk about that a little bit because I want the traditional room. So did you you want the college and stuff like that? Yeah. So we want the traditional roots that we were supposed to go down.
00:02:24:08 – 00:02:39:07
So according to what we had been programed as, as kids, this is how you do it. Yeah. That’s what ends up happening. You know. And then, you know, we both end up in an industry where, I mean, for me, I didn’t graduate from college. I went to Penn State for three years. So and at that point decided to step away is what it came down to.
00:02:39:07 – 00:02:56:16
I knew at that point it wasn’t the thing that was for me. And whenever I stepped away, that’s where I went. I went multiple different places. So and by doing that, I ended up and I had a love for construction. I had a love for architecture and things like that from high school. And then I just got into the industry working, you know, working out to more of 30.
00:02:56:21 – 00:03:18:06
So where it is happening. So, so where did it where did it come in. Like where was the first time that you that you put a tool in your hand and it started working. When did that I well I was actually that was, that was 18 must have been 19 years old. So because I left for my freshman year college, when I, right, started dating a girl who’s, who’s brothers, our brother in law is co in the construction company, okay.
00:03:18:09 – 00:03:35:05
And whatever they call it, I saw I was doing that. So I came home that summer and they’re like, hey, do you want a job? Because they needed help. So they needed a laborer to come out and do stuff. So I’m like, sure, you know, I get to be outside and they offer to pay me under the table, which I was going to be happy with at 19 years old, getting paid underneath the table instead of sending all my money to Uncle Sam.
00:03:35:07 – 00:03:54:00
Yeah. And, and went there and did that got to be outside. So, you know, and so I was like, what was day one like for you on that? Right. So can you remember back to like day one, getting on the job site and like for me, I would say because of the fact that, like, I didn’t have a dad around.
00:03:54:06 – 00:04:11:22
Yeah. So it wasn’t one of those things that I had experience helping him out at the house and doing things when I was younger. So for me, there was a huge amount of nervousness. So I’ve gone out there because, like, I have no idea what I’m doing. I like I show up and I have zero tools, so I’m that guy that shows up on the site without a tool because I didn’t know what I was supposed to have or anything.
00:04:11:23 – 00:04:32:22
Yeah, and I know, I mean, my boss had, you know, he had he had an extra tool belt and he had extra tools that he could give me and everything like that, which was perfect because it’s what I needed. And the one piece of advice he gave me whenever I did that, and it’s the same advice that I give the people that come to work for me, who show up the same way, you know, is that whenever you do this, you know, what I would say is that my guys get paid every week.
00:04:32:22 – 00:04:56:01
So it’s like, if you get paid every week, take a little bit of your paycheck and go and buy a tool. So something that, you know, we’re going to use and I mean, our guys, you know, depending on what their position is in the company, they don’t they don’t need a ton of tools. But there’s always a few things you’re going to need no matter what position you’ve got in our company as far as construction goes, you know, and it’s like, go out and buy those pieces so and you can do it a little bit at a time and build into it so you don’t have to go out and drop, you know, three paychecks
00:04:56:01 – 00:05:15:22
worth of stuff in one sitting. So to go ahead and pull everything, you know, go to Home Depot and, and drop your entire paycheck in the tool department. Yeah. That’s exactly they’ll love you for it. hope people love you for it. They probably want to be there, but you’re going to have fun while you’re there. But you know, you’ll you’ll get money for the rest of that week.
00:05:15:22 – 00:05:36:24
It’s not going to be a good week. Yes. So, Roman Roman knew it. And that was one of the. Yeah. Roman. But. Hey, I went down that route before actually was macaroni and cheese for me because I didn’t even know what ramen noodles were at that point. So those boxes of Kraft macaroni cheese. but whenever I started, I was nervous as heck.
00:05:36:24 – 00:05:53:21
So there’s no question. I mean, I didn’t know what it was, and it’s the the funniest. Well, it’s funny now when I look back at it back then it wasn’t funny. But dollar Bill, whenever I first started we were working on a big commercial warehouse is what we were working on, and we were peeling off. They had corrugated roofing, so we were taking the corrugated off.
00:05:53:21 – 00:06:11:03
No sub sub deck underneath of it at all. So it was just the trusses. So we took the corrugated off because it was the old metal corrugated. So you could actually walk across it. We would take that off plywood up the deck. So and then shingle it as what we were doing. and I was staying at my girlfriend’s house one night just sleeping over.
00:06:11:03 – 00:06:27:18
So different beds. So yeah, I was a good get. Yeah. Or at least her parents thought so. And, so whenever we were doing that, I woke up or I, in the middle of the night, they come in the room and they’re like, what’s going on? I had dreamed in my head so that I was working on that job.
00:06:27:19 – 00:06:50:08
I mean, I remember the dream in my head. Yeah. So whenever they woke me up, I was working on that job and they had put down all the decking, and I was trapped underneath the decking, between the decking and the ceiling underneath. So I couldn’t get out. And I’m banging on the roof on the roof deck. So getting out, which meant I was standing on the bed that I was sleeping in, banging on, I’m rocking this house, banging on the wall.
00:06:50:10 – 00:07:05:19
So I’m like, what is going on? When I woke up at that point and I explained, I’m like I said. And then I said it. The dream. I said, I have no idea. So I’ve never done that before. So that was a first for me. and that was, that was one of the things that in my head I was like, Holy cow, where did that come from?
00:07:05:22 – 00:07:25:08
And that’s one of the reasons I look at it this way. It’s kind of one of those things where I’d never had anything like that, that stuck with me to that point. So where I had that kind of a dream. So and at the time, obviously that was a challenging dream. I’m stuck. Yeah. And at the same time, it was the piece of this is something that at least has enough emotion for me and something I like enough that I’m still dreaming about it later on.
00:07:25:10 – 00:07:46:14
Yeah, it’s kind of whenever I look back at it now, that was kind of one of those triggers. So, so they, they one hook, line and sinker. You were caught on forever. It’s like we reached up and grabbed you. That’s exactly it. So yanked me in. Well and and the fun it. So I did that for what 2 or 3 summers.
00:07:46:14 – 00:08:02:19
So because that’s what it was. I took a half a semester off. And when I was off that half a semester, I work with them and things. Well, and then whenever I took that time off after that, the girlfriend I was dating and I broke up, so and construction got a little tighter where we were. So they economize as far as their crews went.
00:08:02:19 – 00:08:20:21
So I went off and got another job at that point. So working for it. And that’s it’s one of the funny things my mom to this day still says, I have no idea why anyone would hire you. Oh, because I used to work. And every job that I had, you know, 2 to 3 years max. Yeah. And then I would go get another job.
00:08:20:21 – 00:08:38:05
And usually it wasn’t even in the same industry. Entirely different industry. Yeah. Because for me, I needed to have something different. And that was the piece that I realized because I get bored, I get really good at it. I get promoted as high as I can get promoted in that short amount of time. Yeah. And then I’d be sitting around and I’m like, I’m, you know, I need something new.
00:08:38:07 – 00:08:59:03
Yeah, that’s what I would do is go find it. Well, yes, exactly. I love that challenge because, well, you know, there’s so many people that have that same kind of, interaction or beginning that they kind of like, especially in, you know, in the trades industry, it’s like they get started, they have no idea. They have no skills, they have no tools.
00:08:59:03 – 00:09:24:12
They have no inkling of, like what this thing is. And they they dive into it and they just step out on a, on a leap of faith. And, and then that thing grabs them and it holds on to them and, and it gives them something that they didn’t even know that they were missing. And then the next thing you know, they start walking down this path and they’re they’re gaining knowledge and again, and experience and they’re gaining, you know, reinforcement, positive reinforcement.
00:09:24:12 – 00:09:46:22
And then all of a sudden they just start accumulating the knowledge to a point where they master something and then they like, oh, this is great. And then they move into the next phase or the next piece or then the something like that. So that’s that’s interesting. I think that’s a very I agree with you. I mean, it’s one of the pieces like I like my, the guy that a lot of our tile for us right now.
00:09:46:24 – 00:10:09:09
So he’s worked in so many of the different trades throughout construction. He’s done trim, he’s done framing. So he’s done has he done he’s done a couple other things too. So those are the ones I know off topic because I occasionally I use them for those things. yeah. And some of the things he’s doing for us. but anyways, a lot of the people do that though, and that’s the big thing, is you get that chance in the industry to be able to go ahead and kind of taste it.
00:10:09:11 – 00:10:31:18
So I always say sample the buffet. So that’s out there and see which one actually goes ahead and resonates because each of them has different, different focuses, different skill sets and draws the different type of person. That was what it comes down to. And that’s the part that there’s such a variety still in the industry itself, as long as you’re willing to, like you mentioned it before, as long as you’re willing to go deep and actually learn it.
00:10:31:23 – 00:10:47:02
So and pay attention to the details and master the trade. But it’s so easy. So you’ll be able to go ahead and do things. but that’s where the challenge comes in, is that, that so many people get in there and it’s look at it this way. Whenever you first started riding a bike, for most of us, at least, I don’t want to ride.
00:10:47:02 – 00:11:02:13
I first started riding the bike, so, you know, it was out there. Mom had the training wheels on and still had her hand on the back of the bike and everything like that, as we’re as we’re riding down the street. Well, and that’s the phase that most people only get to whenever they get into a trade. So they just start and it’s uncomfortable.
00:11:02:15 – 00:11:18:10
You don’t know what you’re doing. Yeah. You have no balance in this situation. So it’s like you’re all over the place. You feel like you’re never going to learn that. You keep falling and stumbling, falling back and back in our day now, at least in my day. So the other guys in the crew would let you know when you’re stumbling.
00:11:18:10 – 00:11:37:21
There’s no real fast, get get it together. Yeah. In no uncertain terms. you know, and that’s that’s the pieces I see so many people right now who just don’t give it long enough to get good at it. Yeah, and that’s where. And then they switch on to something else, and you go literally back to the same thing again.
00:11:37:23 – 00:11:57:23
You go back to this is brand new. Now you’re stumbling in that area and it’s like they just keep bouncing and they look for what is the easiest thing. So and what’s the easiest may or may not be the right thing for you because usually easy means comfortable which means you’ve been there before. It doesn’t mean you’re growing, and it doesn’t mean you’re giving yourself the opportunity to see what’s possible.
00:11:58:00 – 00:12:17:13
That is what I typically see, the people who stick with it. So I mean, like, I’ll give you an example page, who’s my my stepdaughter when she came to work for me. So she came to work for me being my driver. So I was able to do things. And when she came to work for me, so the only she was only planning on driving and it was only be for a short time until she figured out what she wanted to do and let her.
00:12:17:13 – 00:12:26:11
You could tell for the first 2 or 3 months, that’s all. Like we’d get to a job site and she would just be hanging out in the truck, would even get out of the truck at the time to go on the job site with me. And I was like, all right, is what it is. I asked her to be a driver.
00:12:26:11 – 00:12:43:13
She’s a driver. Yeah. and then, you know, as time went on, she would come in with me and start learning more and start learning things. And it took about 6 to 8 months. So before and she was 18 years old. So she was fresh out of high school. Yeah, brand new and had had zero construction industry experience at all.
00:12:43:15 – 00:12:58:21
so she was very unsure of herself to say the least. So whenever she got started, and I think that for her, that was one of the big challenges, is she didn’t want to step into an area that she was uncomfortable in, so she had knew nothing. She didn’t feel that anything of the conversation wasn’t able to answer a lot of the questions and things like that.
00:12:58:21 – 00:13:14:08
If somebody asked her that. But the guys are all welcoming. So in the ladies there, the ladies love it whenever they see another lady on the on the construction site, because they like to see more of that is what it comes down to. but that just took her time. And now she’s been in it for three years, you know, in the last two.
00:13:14:10 – 00:13:36:24
So two and I had two plus. So she’s been actually out in the field as a project manager. So assistant project manager, then a project manager. So whenever she started and she’s learned more and she’s still learning. So you can you can see that growth and that progress. It just takes time. So the other thing that she did was she had to push through, you know, these internal, you know, belief systems.
00:13:36:24 – 00:13:59:08
Right. Like what what I’ve come to find out and realize is that, you know, these internal conversations that everybody has with themselves, but everybody has this conversation, right? Is is the thing that holds them back. Right? So as she was like, I’ll do the job, I will come and dry, but I don’t I’m not. Get out of the car.
00:13:59:13 – 00:14:18:07
I’m not talking to a customer. I’m not, I’m not. And these are all internal things. So she didn’t say to you this was all internal? That’s right. Her own talk. And. And it took her seeing and going and being and doing to a point where she got comfortable with the conversation inside her head. Well, what are they doing inside?
00:14:18:07 – 00:14:37:05
And then it led to a question of curiosity. And then that that question of curiosity led to, well, let me just get out and see, because I don’t know what he’s doing. I just know that I’m driving him and I might hear a conversation or two and and it just peaks some interest. And then the next thing is like, okay, what’s the next challenge that she had?
00:14:37:07 – 00:14:58:16
And then the next one. But these were all progressions and these internal conversations or with everybody in every job. And that’s that’s the hurdle that people have to get over is that they start these conversations. Even I’ve got guys that have been on the trades, you know, five, six, seven years and there’s points that they hit, where that I know that they’re about to hit the wall.
00:14:58:16 – 00:15:21:13
And it’s like, okay, now I need to help you run through this wall or get over this hurdle because that internal conversations, what’s holding you back from you going forward or gaining more knowledge or moving into the next position? And I and I think that’s that’s important that people understand that that like we all have these internal conversations and that’s the key piece like what you brought up there.
00:15:21:15 – 00:15:39:15
So is on those internal conversations, there’s no question that runs through everybody’s I don’t care who they are, how confident they look and what they come off at. For each one of us, we have a new level that we are unsure of whenever we’re stepping into it, you know? And that’s one of the key things. Like I’ve told page that a million times, I’m like, you think that I’m confident everything we do.
00:15:39:15 – 00:15:54:20
I said, there’s projects I take on and I have zero idea how this is. I know how what the end result is going to be. So but there’s still questions in my mind as we’re going ahead and doing this for new things that we’ve never done before. And so then all I can do is lean in and rely on big thing is I can rely on the team.
00:15:54:21 – 00:16:25:13
That’s because of the subcontractors that I have, the connections among other builders that I’ve got. So there’s always resources there. So to go ahead and reach out to now, I mean, one of the things you and I have identified a million times, you know, over our conversations, is the challenge right now is there’s not enough people coming in to learn that, which means the people who know it are getting out of the industry.
